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Insights Ghana - episode 8
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Episode 8 - Quality Standards and Certification

Roberta:  Welcome to this latest episodes in the series Insights Malta Ghana. When we first launched this idea, my colleague Nadia and I, we sought to provide a platform through which business leaders could come together share ideas, share inspiration, particularly, to have some tips on how to overcome the challenges that were being faced and are still being faced by the pandemic. 

We feel that now more than ever, it is also crucial for businesses to pursue the opportunities that can be availed of by tapping into a new market. And in so doing, of course, maintaining Standards and Quality is key. So to discuss this topic today, we welcome Professor Alex Dodoo and engineer Helga Pizzuto, together with our resident guest, Christopher Busuttil-Delbridge from Evolve Limited. Welcome, everyone. 

Perhaps I can start with you, Engineer Pizzuto. Can you give us a little bit of background about yourself first and then the work of your organization?

Helga:  Okay, I'm currently the executive Chair of the Malta Competition and Consumer Affairs Authority. I graduated nearly more than 40 years ago from university as an engineer. So that's a long time. Currently, as I said, I had this authority, the authority has a very wide remit, and it covers market competition, consumer protection and consumer regulation, product safety. So the safety of all the products that are sold on the local market. Standards, and also metrology, when it comes to measuring the standards that we use in every day. So while they are different aspects, they all come together focusing on the wellbeing of the consumer.

Roberta:  A very wide remit. I had written my thesis on product safety many years ago as well. Thank you for that introduction. And Professor Dodoo, a little bit about yourself and your organization.

Alex:  My name is Alex Dodoo. I graduated as a pharmacist in Ghana 32 years ago, not too long ago. And, and I also did a masters and a PhD in the UK at King's College. My work, early work has always been in medicine and vaccine safety. But since 2017, I have the orders of the President of the Republic of Ghana, been the director general for the Ghana Standards Authority, which is very similar to MCCA because we are Ghana's standards body. 

We are involved in conformity assessments. We have national certification body for products and services. And we also the national measurement Institute, once again, just like a Malta looking after the safety of products, as well as the safety of consumers. Thank you.

Roberta:  Very ambitious remit as well. Well, Professor Dodoo, I think maybe I can direct my first question to you. Ghana is currently undergoing a transformational industrialization program. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Alex:  Yes, we call it in Ghana, the Rapid Industrialization Agenda. Ghana had independence in 1957 with more or less, shall we see a socialist approach to develop earnings whereas [unintelligible]. By the end of 1981, we were rock bottom and we started rising. 

However, to overcome the challenges. Ghana became an import dependence country. Industries collapsed. Pre-COVID, during COVID and post-COVID the current government from 2017 believes that industrialization is a way forward. So we are relying on our partners locally and internationally to industrialize our country based on just 10 areas. 

We're going to look at having small and medium scale enterprises nationwide. We are having industrial zones. We are having added value to our various raw materials. And we are starting light assembly of automobiles. Pharmaceuticals are also big. So we are really at a place where you can see the starting points. And their starting point with quite a lot of partnerships with countries from whom we buy technology and expertise, but through whom we can export our raw materials in a graduated way we start with raw materials, we add value, and we increase our exports. So that industrial transformation starts from what we have, raw materials, and hopefully, the next 20 to 30 years becomes a much better knowledge economy. Going to the high end of it.

Nadia:  How is the role, Professor Dodoo, of the standardization and accreditation standards is important in this change of industrialization. What's the critical role? How why is it important for companies to face EU accreditation and certification in this within this change?

Alex:  For us at the Standards Authority and at the Ministry of Trade and Industry of the Republic of Ghana, our market is very small, only 30 million people. West Africa has a market of 350 million people. Currently our biggest markets are in Europe, in the European Union and in the UK. Obviously qualities are number one for every business or rather for every purchaser. And we are aware that our quality infrastructure is weak. 

As we speak, we do not as yet have a strong national accreditation service. We have created one but it is extremely, extremely new. So new that it has not accredited anything or anyone. However, this Ghana Standards Authority has obtained accreditation from the EU for some of our laboratories. And what is how do we partner with groups like MCCA, or companies in the EU, especially with Malta and others to be able to offer accreditation to our companies for goods designed for foreign countries. Because the value of the accreditation body is important for the importer, we want to be sure that the ultimate aim of exports and is achieved by having the necessary accreditations and certifications so that Ghanaian businesses can access important markets.

Nadia:  Very interesting, thank you indeed. Engineer Pizzuto, the role of the MCCA and the synergies which we can create with Ghana or any counterparts as well.

Helga:  In fact we've had a meeting, a virtual meeting some months ago, where we discussed in detail the activities that were carried out as a regulator here in Malta, and we found a lot of areas where there was common interest. And we've drawn up even some memorandums of understanding where we will be sharing best practices, we'll be sharing from our and our knowledge of EU regulations which can support Ghana access European markets easier. 

But I think we even the fact that we have a very, because of our smallness of Malta smallest we have a very wide expertise in different areas. And it is easy, I wouldn't say easy, but it is going to facilitate the exchange that we can have with a country like Ghana, that is still setting up its systems still has the opportunity to learn from others people other people's mistakes, and, and therefore Fast Track development. But also from our end, we will learn and see a wider perspective of the application of the standards and their relations that we use here. And why not maybe have the opportunity to work together, also providing services from our own experienced personnel to Ghana.

Chris:  This is interesting we've heard Ghana say that there are small 30 million people. We said we heard the Engineer Pizzuto say that we are much smaller 500,000. So the thing is here that some I think that's what I had discussed with Professor Dodoo, I think years ago, is that Malta, this generation the one are living now is the generation of people who has taken Malta from pre-EU standards to post EU standards. 

So in 2004 when Malta joined the EU, we were the people in the industry in the quality industry and the standards industry, that Professor Dodoo and me included, that have helped the whole country make the leap. So it's still very fresh in our mind. Let's also think of another context, let's think of the language. So we heard the professor though to say that there's their biggest market is Europe, and he specifically mentioned the UK. We know that for historical reasons. Now we know that Brexit is happening. So it could be a bit of a, an issue there, there will be a couple of hiccups. 

Malta is the second right now the second native English language speaking country in Europe. So after Brexit, it will be the first native English language speaking country in Europe. We're in the EU. It's fresh in our minds in this generation how to transition from post to, pre to post EU standards. 

Definitely, we can help, there's a huge potential. What is what we don't have is the numbers. We will never, ever look down on Ghana, because to us, it's a bigger country. We're not a huge European country that is just an additional business, our whole market, as Engineer Pizzuto, said is extremely small. So for us businesses, regulatory bodies, authorities, Ghana is a land of opportunity, not only because of the rapid industrialization agenda, but also because of their size, and where they stand right now and our previous experience, language and human factor. 

The only one final point I would like to make is what Professor Dodoo mentioned earlier, he said, because we have to tap into our natural resources and add value. I agree 100%. Let us add to that, that there is another huge natural resource which I experienced personally The beautiful people and right mentality and thirst for growth and passion for the country that I found in Ghana as well. So yes, there are all the formulas, all the ingredients for success. Let's make sure that we work together to achieve that in Malta and in Ghana.

Roberta:  I think that's a really interesting insight Chris, and we have seen throughout this whole series, the value and the importance and the power of collaboration. And I think you have summarized that very, very beautifully. And when it comes to the regulators, how important is it that when there is this process of change that is going on? How important is it that we also act as educators not just regulators?

Helga:  If I may, I think that's fundamental, because we're not here to, you know, be watchdogs. We are here to get people to understand, to and to embrace, in this case, standard certification, the need to build an quality into the processes, the products, services, if we're talking services. And actually this program is very, I don't know when, it's very well timed, because yesterday was wealth standards day. And we actually had an online conference, which we did, a digital conference, which was very well received to have very good participation. And the intention of the conference was education, awareness, and appreciation of all the work that is being done and all the opportunities that there are for us Maltese also to participate in the development of standards, because standards development, they set the scene of what's coming in the future. And if we have niche markets, which were targeting as nations, whether it's Malta or Ghana, we need to follow what's happening in those areas, participate and basically get the people who are interested involved also in the international scene. 

Roberta:  You know, your reaction to this.

Alex:  Education is key for us. And as the Engineer said, we now live in a global village. And as we celebrated world standards day, looking at how to protect the planet with standards. Our focus was how can we do more, and how can, can we do it better. But I think Christopher says something which is so important to us, we look at the human resource as an important driver of the nation's developments. 

In addition, however, as we talk about education, we also aware that we need that balance of demonstrating the change we want to obtain. Let people see the value of the change. Let them see that standards or civilization certification measurements, leads to an improvement in their incomes. You know, as your population grows faster than the rate of GDP, you need to do things differently. In Ghana, we are blessed this year, to be chosen to host the Secretariat, for the African Continental Free Trade Area.

In terms of numbers is the biggest single free trade area in history. But it's really big on paper, how can we make it happen by making Ghana the destination of choice for good quality products, for services, for human resource, and this is where we find most extremely attractive. We find the collaboration with Malta as we learn from Malta, but Malta seeing Ghana as its own to reach out to Africa. And I would like to meet the Minister for tourism. But I will say that in Ghana, we believe that we have the most friendly people in the CTS environment. You know, all this considered, you move about easily, and with the most active IT industry in Africa, the biggest mobile phone penetration in every nook and cranny of the country. At the risk of sounding like an over promoting Ghana, I will say that a marriage between Ghana and Malta is marriage in heaven. 

Chris:  Well, I look forward to see you in a few days.

Nadia:  Chris, I know that quality is very much, you mention quality, a great deal. And in fact, you're also chairing a committee, within the Chamber of Commerce, particularly focus on quality with the aim to educate businesses, people and ecosystems basically about the importance and the relevance of quality. And this is something which we both share both myself and yourself. I know that we've discussed great lengths, the subject, and it's still at the very beginning. Different levels of quality and the standards within Evolve now the company or you're leading. Why do you think it's so important for companies like yourself? And similar in size, perhaps, or not even maybe smaller, even larger in size, important for them to follow and pursue quality standards? Why is it so critical for companies nowadays, perhaps even more? So now, when demand isn't as high? And we were facing a bit of low demand and may perhaps over supplying? Is that the case?

Chris:  Thank you, if I had to remove all the romanticism from my reply, I would say because the customer demands it. So it's always there's a driver in everything right? I mean, this is human nature. And in nature, in business, we, and even the nature of any company, you know, you there is a demand, and you have to fill it. 

Now, as we move on, there's that famous triangle where speed of supply, there is price and there's the quality of the product and people saying it's impossible to have all three. And sometimes it's the speed and something, but one thing remains unchanged. No one wants a bad service. No one. Ask anyone whoever you want in the world in any geography and ask him or her. Would you accept a bad service? No. Now what is bad and what is good? It's depending on the expectations. 

So for us, quality is exceeding the expectations of our customer base. In other industries, it could be quality is meeting a certain level a certain standard a certain Tolerance being good and bad for us as a service based industry, it is exceeding our customers’ expectations. So we have to manage our customers’ expectations for them to be realistic, because you can say okay, I want this tomorrow for free, can I do it as a business? No. So, if I tell you I can do it, I will never meet that quality expectation. And it all starts with a mind-set. Quality is a mind-set, quality is a way of life, quality is a choice that you make in your life. And you either have an eye for quality or you have nothing, it could be in the service industry, it could be in the hospitality industry, it could be in the manufacturing, it could be in any form or shape. But I will give you a very small example. 

Ordering a drink a milkshake. Okay, it could be I ordered a chocolate milkshake, the person walks three meters to the bar comes back with a nice smile and my chocolate milkshake. Perfect. He gave me the chocolate milkshake, and that's my, and then time, it could be another completely different experience, I walk into the same place, no one even makes eye contact with me, I'm waiting for 10 minutes. Then I order my chocolate milkshake, the person walks 3 meters to the same bar and comes back with a vanilla milkshake. So I'm not even recognized, I'm not important to them as a business and didn’t even make eye contact with me. I'm like extra, they got rid of an order. They're not attentive, they make me feel not important. 

So quality is also about how you make people feel within there's an old adage that says, people will not remember what you gave them, but how you made them feel or your quality. And that is very important. And this is what we're trying even as a Quality Committee and within our company to evangelize, if you can say that. This, mentality this shift? It all starts with “am I proud to do what I'm doing.” 

There is my initial on it? And if I'm proud, and people will know me for what I do, then automatically, there will be quality that follows in everything that I do and the clothes that I wear, and how I comb my hair, although I cannot call my hair anymore now.

Nadia:  How do standards help, Chris? Because obviously, quality, like you mentioned is very intangible in a way. In a sense it could mean something for some for one industry, something different for another industry. And over here we have the regulators as well. So why is it important for companies to take that as a bit of an extra mile? And even on board accreditation processes, standardization, find more of a structure and for companies and for businesses to align to. Why do you think it's necessary to even take it to that to get to that level?

Alex:  Right. So as we said in Ghana, our interest really is to industrialize. To have a new economy based on value addition. Now, as we said, the markets are external and they'll be relying on a shield of specifications. Usually in line with ISO specifications. I would mention the 10 strategic industries that we want to look at, one is integrated bauxite and aluminium. The other is found in SIL, the next is petrochemical. The other is vehicle and automotive industry; pharmaceuticals; industrial chemicals; garments and textiles; vegetable oils; industrial [unintelligible] and machinery. 

Every one of these are high precision industries. They require clear standards require clear specifications that can be met or that can be assessed externally to give confidence to the buyer. So, for us, issues of standards and issues of accreditation have become issues of survival for the nation. Because that is the only way we are going to break through. 

There is also a soft aspects, and the soft aspects is we live in a sub-region which has not been associated with reliability and quality. To break through, you need to give assurance to the international community of consistency, of reliability, of trust and of the fact that when you say it is one meter is precisely one meter, not a centimetre less, not a centimetre more. So for us is both a survival issue. But also is a market differentiator for the country to stand to be seen as a place of quality in a sub region, which is yet to be identified with quality as well as consistent.

Helga:  Maybe if I can add on, because it was to my mind when Chris was speaking, and now you've confirmed it that if you have a bad experience, it tends to remain with you much longer. And therefore, it's extremely important. And this is a message for the industry is more than us here. But that the industry is set up with a system that is based on solid ground, which basically means it embraces standards, the knowledge that comes because the standards are developed, with the knowledge of a lot of expertise and a lot of years of experience, because they're updated and revised over time. So that as much as possible, your products, your services, meet the right quality levels, when they start operating. Because you can lose a lot of clients, you can lose a lot of name, if you're maybe very fast initially, you oversee the quality aspects of the product. And while you may have it in some products, you don't have the repeatability, which tends to come with standards and entered certification. And therefore it becomes critical to the whole industry, the industry as a whole, sometimes not just one individual operator. 

And the other important aspect from a regulatory perspective, there are a lot of regulations. And there are a lot of requirements, technical requirements when you put products, I'll take the example of vehicles on an international market from there are aspects of safety. Besides the quality aspects and durability, there's the aspects of safety, there's the aspect of interoperability, there's the environmental considerations, which are becoming more and more important. And there's a very rigid and strong regime of controls, of the approval bodies and accreditations behind all of this. So you need to have that infrastructure in place at the national level in order to be able to enter into certain markets. 

Chris:  I just want to comment to me, because it's very important, what Nadia mentioned, because what I was mentioning was a very subjective form of quality. And she's completely right, I wanted to highlight that there's a method behind the madness. So we are the first ISO 9001 certified company on the island. And even there is a method on how to customize our support for different customers. 

So it is very important what Engineer Pizzuto was saying, and Professor Dodoo, that when you are part of an ecosystem, there is an expected level, and you have to measure up to a certain standard to meet expectations, and set expectations. But even when we, business and service oriented companies operate, there is always a sort of qualitative management system. And there are various standards, but the basic one being ISO 9001, we're in the 2015 version right now. And so which, in which you also specify how to customize solutions, how to design solutions, and how you go about serving your different customers’ needs. So yes, there is a method behind the madness and the subjectivity.

Helga:  And it also has the requirement for measuring your customer satisfaction!

Nadia:  Indeed, most, however, most companies, and even the ones I mostly deal with, and when I when I sit on boards, and they're all very eager to start going on, and awarding the ISO certification, for instance, just to name one of them, just because we mentioned but as you said, and as you all mentioned, there are different standards. 

However, the truth of the matter is that it's a cumbersome and long process for companies to on-board it even internally, it takes long. It needs resources, even internally for people to be able to board it, then obviously, getting the certification is one thing abiding by it is another. So it's definitely something, it's an investment, from a company's perspective. And smaller companies, small to medium sized companies, they do not all have even the investments, especially nowadays to invest. There is a limited and finite budgets. So what are the real? What's the benefit of this? Let's put it this way, painful, long process and laborious process? Perhaps Chris, from your side because obviously, you're from a company perspective, because obviously, the regulators can, will definitely have a lot of benefits as well to highlight to this. But perhaps you can start, Chris, because I, you've been through it more than once you updated constantly, you're constantly investing.

Chris:  Yes, I don't see, necessarily as a painful and laborious process, to be honest. For us, it's been a description of what we do. I mentioned in the very beginning that quality is a mind-set. So for us, ISO 9001, in this case, but it could be any other standard should be made to be a description of how you operate. And I say that because every audit today, we just finished our last audit, our last yearly audit, for example, the auditors always say, it's a pleasure to be here, because you live the standard. So we don't try to do this, because it's written in the standard. But we over time, you know, we always did things this way. And we managed to embody the principles that we believe in, which are also in the standard, in our everyday operation. 

If you do certification for the simple scope of having a certificate, you're really wasting your time and money. And I don't believe that will bring any value to your organization. That is my personal experience. So to really understand what quality is, is to be familiar with standards and make them work for you, not you work for them. So when I want to be guided on something particular, Engineer Pizzuto just told me, there is even a description of how you measure your customer satisfaction? 

What more do you want, if you're an organization, you know, starting to do it, I'm giving the formula to success. So I'm telling you what to do. And as was mentioned already in the discussion, this is not based by one person, this is decades, upon decades of people's experiences, formed and distilled into one standard. So I mean, there's absolutely no reason not to do it. And it's not prohibitively expensive. I was a one person show before then became five, now we're 26. Its reach is within reach for everyone. So I mean, I encourage. And it's easier to start. Don't do it when you're too big. It's easier because when you build, you build on the, you have a good foundation to build.

Helga:  Maybe if I can add to what Chris is saying, because I have 10 years of experience in a production environment and introducing certification. It tends to be daunting when you're faced with it, because there's a lot of documentation that you need to draw up. But the experience I had reflects the one Chris had, that it actually, once you start, you realize it's an eye opener for you as well. And you improve whatever you're doing your own processes. Because when you start mapping down, it's like, like Chris said, you map down what you're doing might have to tell you write down what you do every day and you say, “Oh, it's extra work.” But then when you start writing it down, you say, oh, but I wasted my time here, or I could have done this better. So it's also it's an eye opener of how to improve your own production processes primarily. And the way you go about doing your business,

Nadia:  And the fact that you can measure quite a lot of data, like we were mentioned, measuring customer's expectations, measuring even internally, identifying the gaps. That's definitely an interesting framework for different businesses to adopt. 

Professor Dodoo, would you like to add something to this lesson? 

Alex:  I'm actually envious of Chris and Engineer because I have an organization of nearly 900 people trying to build a quality infrastructure. ISO 9001 across it. It's quite interesting. But obviously it becomes a big challenge, because how do you help people who for 53 years, have done things in a particular way, without measurements or without consequence. 

So for me listening to both, listening to the discussion, I see the importance of certification of 9001, especially in an organization like ours. But then I'm also torn between 1) we didn’t need these investments to keep us sustainable, but at the same time, we are going to be the most challenging to do it. But it's, it's exciting for a different reason. Across our country, which is Ghana, very few agencies have ISO certification. So it's a huge opportunity to change the way we do business. And it's good that at this moment in time, we have the political climates, which is right for it as the politics also helps. I’ll give an example, our President, in 2017, decided to give free, completely free senior high school to every Ghanaian child, nearly four 4 million people, which means that we are aware that we need to make the investments, we are aware that it's going to take time for investments to show value. But we have started. So if government has started at the secondary school level, high school level, companies and state agencies have no excuse, because government is spending nearly a billion dollars a year on free Senior High School. Companies, entity agencies will have to match it, by also beginning to revise their processes, so that these investments in 5 or 10 years’ time, we should have value that we actually experience. Free high school and certified companies with systems in place to make sure that we are efficient, and that we will make the profits.

Roberta:  Professor Dodoo, earlier you mentioned the 10 critical areas that Ghana is currently focused on focusing on. Would you say that there are certain sectors or areas where standardization or accreditation is crucial? It's not just desirable, but it's actually crucial for the success of the industry.

Alex:  I would, I would say all but I would list just one or two as examples. One is garments and textiles. Ghana, as an African country, has tariff free exports to the United States as part of the African Growth Opportunity Act, AGOA, which runs till 2030. It’s worth 100 billion. Ghana is only able to access the market because of quality. So we see the side effects immediately. So we are losing business. And as a small country, which is still growing. The textile sector is sort of it's an easy sector to start from. It's not high tech, it's heavy labour intensive. But because of the absence of standards, we are not penetrating the important, highly subsidized American market now giving us huge return on investments. 

So if we cannot do that, you can imagine whether we can do it for people assembly and so on and so forth. So everyone is important. But for us, it's very, very vivid in areas of garments and textiles and vegetable oils and fats as well as agricultural produce, because they are the bottom of the bottom for us. And yet we are not able to access the markets, which is a shame, but which we are going to overcome. 

I'm extremely convinced that with the sort of interactions with Ghana opening up to friendly countries who have gone through the evolution to reach a stage where Standards and Quality have become part of their daily vocabulary. That is what we want to do and that is why we are trying to benchmark against those who have gone the same route as we are trying to.

Chris:  And what a pity. Because I've seen your fashion and it's beautiful. I love it. 

Alex:  But I need a quality to export. 

Chris:  The world is missing out, believe me, because what you have to offer is incredible. Incredible.

Roberta:  Engineer Pizzuta, but what about Malta? Which sectors or which industries or which kinds of standards or accreditation would you feel are really crucial at this point in time?

Helga:  We're working a lot in terms of standards, especially now. One on the technology and we're participating with local experts not assess the regulator, but we facilitate in the process and the standards that are being developed in respect of blockchain, artificial intelligence. Also some areas which are closer to home, cultural heritage, and environmental aspects. But the ones we are working on at a national level in terms of standards, we're trying to focus on elements which are related to the environmental aspects. 

We've done some work with standards for PV installations. We've have standard collaboration with the University of Malta on how to have to plant green roofs on the island. And we're trying to promote that more. Then we have elements related to, for example, safety in playgrounds. They are developed on a volunteer basis, so the standard is there. Whoever would like to use it can use it, but it's not imposed from a regulatory perspective. And that is one way of starting to get people involved in utilizing standards or developing standards to cover specific areas by making them voluntary. And then when you have buy in, in general, you could probably start thinking about legislating, if you need that.

Environment, I think is the key and the new technologies, because they are new opportunity areas. We need to follow up on.

Alex:  How have you been able to change the mind-sets of an entire population towards quality? Because we really have a mind-set, some people, a very small minority who believe in equality, but the rest believe in “well, Ce la vie.”

Helga:  Well, maybe I can say what, what I think from long years of experience. 

First of all, it's not something that changes overnight, as you will know, you need time, evolution, new generations, because if you have new generations, which are who are being better educated, more exposure to how people do things in other countries. And I think a few examples of, of companies or sectors, which aren't geared towards export, and therefore, they have a lot of international exposure, and they need to work to standards. 

The people who have experienced in those companies then can leave go into other sectors, other companies, and there's cross fertilization. I believe in that. You need the exposure, and you need to touch quality to work in an environment which is focused on quality. So rather than try and do a blitz across the country, which I think would be extremely difficult, it was difficult even for Malta an it is really tiny. But if you have a few examples, that have had to work up to international standards, even if they are companies with foreign investment, and therefore they get their knowledge and the exchange, the locals that work in those environments, then come out and can reproduce that in, in other sectors. And the cross-fertilisation we're talking about between us and Ghana will help as well. So it's a number of things that needs to be addressed from different aspects.

Chris:  And that maybe it's not a one-time thing as well, Engineer, because I mean, as I mentioned earlier, you can get the standard once but then to keep that standard is the other thing like my boss likes to say everyone can stand on his tiptoes for a few seconds, but to stay there. So I think that's even the remit of the Quality Committee within the Chamber of Commerce here whereby a constant reminder a constant push towards continuous development and continuous improvement.

Helga:  I have another example but I'll say it again. I plant yourself a tree, and it's in the wind, you straighten it with a rope. If you let go of the rope too early before the trees, strong enough, has grown enough in the right direction, it will go back to where it was. So until it becomes ingrained, and really part of the individual, the system, the organization, you have to keep pulling it the rope. 

Chris:  Interesting.

Nadia:  Very interesting Roberta. I think we've shared and there is a lot of opportunity for countries and businesses within both countries to share knowledge, experience, insights, and studies. We have regulators here that could support businesses as well. And we also have Chris, who has shared his own personal experience, from the point of view of Evolve. And also he will definitely be sharing the work of the Quality Committee with regards with the chamber in the coming weeks or months ahead. 

So I think, whoever is listening to us, please reach out to us if you need any assistance, or how we can assist from a business perspective. But we are all advocates of qualities and standards and accreditation. And we're very much looking forward to assist everyone who's interested to be part of this journey. 

So thank you very much as well, Engineering Pizzuto, Professor Alex Dodoo, Chris, as usual, thank you for standing and being with us throughout this journey, the eighth episode, this this time round. And we're very, thank you Roberta, of course, for being part of this initiative. Thank you.

Chris:  I wanted to thank Nadia. I wanted to thank Nadia and Roberta on behalf of all the listeners, and for all this for this initiative that they've brought to the Ghanaian and Maltese is this community, because this is a really good platform for everyone to join and contribution and communicate and collaborate. And this is the future. The future is in collaboration stronger together. 

Nadia:  Thank you.

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